Mindless Ones

Makes cool art/music, for example: We Are No Longer Strangers (2024). Official Daredevil enthusiast. Worth keeping an eye on his Instagram, always something going on there.   

Who are you and how did you become a man without fear? 

My name is Watters and I am what many describe as “cool music guy”. Basically I am an Artist who makes lots of cool things all of which are informed around my lived experience as a disabled person.

However what I feel sets me aside from a lot of what is out there when it comes to representing people like me is that what I make isn’t made to be anything in particular and what I mean by that is a lot of your typical mainstream disability programming tends to fall into two schools, the first being inspiration porn which often consists of infantilising disabled and neurodivergent people and presenting us almost like Zoo animals, a good example of this is Channel 4 producing a show called “The Undateables” and then touting it as inspirational programming and representation, it exists purely to make non-disabled people good about themselves. 

The second is the trope of tragedy, that life as a disabled person is miserable, “they can’t do anything” and are often in fiction window dressing/a storytelling object.

What I do and what I make is neither. It is one of the most honest and real representations of disabled life but more specifically my life. Because that’s all it is. It is me unabridged. 

And the reason why I became a man without fear and create what I create without any fear at all is because growing up I never had stories about living as an autistic man that were accurate. 

No films, no books, no songs covering life as an autistic man. No break up songs about dealing with break ups as someone with a communication disability. No films about dealing with externalism as someone with autism. And most importantly no openly autistic artists or directors that made me go “oh I could do that” 

Instead in primary school I was often told and led to believe that Autistic people had no imagination. I of course learned this wasn’t true. A lot of it I have myself to thank for but I’d be amiss if I didn’t acknowledge the huge role my parents and family had. My mum and dad home educated for a number of years before Secondary School and that led me discover both my creativity but also distinct sense of justice of righteousness that has led me to be almost militant in everything I do.

I know you were talking about taking some Garth Ennis Punisher doon the sauna a while back, but – are comics part of your ‘hing, generally? Any favourites?

I used to be into them a lot when I was kid but its something I’ve been getting into a lot more again! 

I was big into manga like Tokyo Ghoul when I was a teen but now as an adult I’ve been visiting a lot of the Defenders saga within the Marvel Comics. I don’t think I could ever fully get into the more cosmic side of the comics it just doesn’t interest me (save for that recent issue where Daredevil goes to hell to save Foggy that was pretty metal). 

I’m currently reading the latest Daredevil run: Cold Day in Hell which is effectively “Old Man Matthew” and it is so, so good. I can’t wait to see Charlie Cox adapt it in 20-30 years which I have no doubts will happen.

Were you into the OG Daredevil TV show from the start?

Yes! Admittedly I stared around the time Season 2 came out but I was damn hooked. I’ve never been that into Marvel Movies outside of the OG Spider-Man films, and I think I fell in love Netflix’s Daredevil (and the Defenders) for the same reason I loved those. Matt Murdock and Peter Parker aren’t rich, they don’t have some cosmic destiny (Spider-Man variant depending of course), they’re just good but flawed dudes trying t their best to make defend and make their place in the world better,,

What’s yr favourite stretch? Me, I tuned out with the stuff in season two that was setting up Defenders but season three was my shit.  

Season 3 is the hands down the best piece of Marvel content out and I don’t think they’ll ever top it. It’s in the same tier of quality of Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy for me. It handles so many things from mental illness (Bullseye) to religion (Matthew’s Catholicism and Book Of Job-esque arc) with so much nuance. 

As much as I love the latest season (I know its a new show but as Vincent who plays Kingpin says: It is Season 4) the thing that irk’s me that Matt’s final big moment of “This City Rejected you, it beat you, I beat you” which will never fail to give goosebumps is almost undone in a way but at the same time I’m totally for more Kingpin.

Briefly as well you mentioned Season 2, which personally I don’t think gets enough praise and I think a lot of that is down to the performances of Deborah Ann Woll and Jon Bernthal as Karen Page and Punisher. Their arc is the best part of that season for me. It was a huge risk in my view to try and adapt the Punisher again after so many missteps but I think they knocked it out the park. The adaptation of the rooftop argument from Welcome Back Frank: with Frank calling Daredevil with “You’re one bad day from being me” was peak. Having a superhero adaption with such well choreographed fight scenes but with brilliant dialogue is such a rarity, it so brilliant in fact that you forget that one of them is in a red devil suit in the same scene.

How did season one of Born Again hit you? 

I knew going in that in the best way it was going to be a frankenstein show wWith it previously being a total reboot before they came to their senses) and it definitely shows at points, certain lines are obviously adr’d in and scenes that were shot after the writer reshuffle are stitched on but I still think they did a great job.

Episodes 1,8,9 that were completely shot and written after the reshuffle shine like crazy.  8 and 9 are tied for the best of the season in my opinion. I’m so happy with how they handled every legacy side character. Particularly Bullseye, it would of been so easy to have him kill Foggy and have him just be in prison forever but no it looks like they’re giving him a proper, proper arc and I’m here for it.

The two standout moments for me are –

Frank talking to the cops. This obviously has basing in the real world with Cops and Soldiers adopting the Punisher logo as an excuse to do whatever they wanted and I think rather than ignoring it the writers did the right thing not only narratively having Frank go after them but having Jon Bernthal saying right into the Camera that they are “a bunch of clowns” 

And then that moment towards the end of the finale where Karen and Matt are overlooking the Kingpin’s warehouse and Karen pulls Matt all the way back to season 1 asking him once again what its like living in the darkness and he responds with “Its not dark, its like a thousand suns” it was such a great tasteful callback that perfectly serves as a bookend for season 1.

Do you have a Kingpin style nemesis? 

Being disabled, an artist and champion for my beliefs and what I feel is right  I’ve come up against a lot of nemesis. 

I’ve come up against sleazy promoters, out-of-touch academics and other artists. All of whom on the face of it claim to be progressive but are more often than not self severing narcissists. 

It’s not been easy but I am yet to be defeated. I keep fighting and I always will even if I get knocked down. Because of me people are more aware of the neurodivergent lived experience , because of me there are people who worked in the industry who are no longer working there and it is a better place for it.

I honestly wish I could say there was one person who is my “Kingpin” but unfortunately my nemesis is a concept and for me that is injustice. 

I often get asked if I’m scared that’ll I’ll ever antagonise the wrong person or come up against something beyond me and I always remember this footage of Fidel Castro being asked if he wears a bulletproof vest to which is he shows his very hairy non bulletproof vest covered chest and says “I have a moral vest. That one has protected me always” 

Don’t get me wrong no one is going to shoot me I’m sure but it is risky to speak out and I admire anyone who rises above that fear does so. 

Like Matt Murdock, it is important to be a man without fear not just for yourself but for others.

There’s a lot of your work that carries on beyond the tracks themselves – the Polaroid jackets, the promos, it all feels like one big communication. What inspires that side of your work?

Believe me when I say people haven’t seen anything yet! We got some plans yes sir. I’d say if anyone probably influenced it was Hideo Kojima. Sure he makes games but they are always much more than that and that extra curricular art is something I strive to do in my own work. 

In an age where artists would rather use AI to make a poster or even a music video it becomes imperative to stand out and to break past what has already been done. 

A common argument is that AI is a lot cheaper than creating a full music video and to that I say I’d rather watch a music video filmed on a 2008 Motorola that breaks all the film making conventions (rule of thirds etc) and looks aesthetically terrible than watch a music video made with an AI. Not only for one would people’s fingers look normal but it would be original and actually human which is the foundation of being creative.

What song are you most proud of so far? 

I’d probably say American Psycho. When I started I really wanted to make more experimental stuff but I never had the confidence to really dive into that properly, American Psycho for me was the first time that I felt I cracked it and for me it’s informed myself to I’m ready to begin experimenting properly and make something that’ll go “Yeah that’s Watters” in the same way people will hear something slightly off kilter and ask “Is this Death Grips?”. People know my music for the most part for being somewhat chill, more akin to Mac Miller but in a lot of ways I think that was just to get arses in seats for what comes next. 

What’s been the biggest challenge you’ve faced since you started making music?

Money, hands down everything costs money and not just for me and artists but for our audiences. I cringe regularly at the prices of gigs. Art and live music in particular is being killed. People can’t afford to go to gigs therefore artists don’t get money to continue making more art therefore there are no more gigs and music stagnates because promoters and venues are less likely to take a chance on someone innovating compared to the lad down the street playing the same four chords thinking he’s Noel Gallagher despite going to private school.

At the same time though having a lack of funds has forced me to innovate and also learn how to do certain things for myself, fortunately as I’ve grown as an artist and continued to prove myself more and more opportunities have presented themselves and things are finally starting to get a little easier but it always comes down to money. 

The more money you have in this business to more you’re able to do and its sad. Because rich people (at least the ones who start off rich) don’t make cool art or cool anything for that matter.

What’s been the most fun thing you’ve done since you started making music?

Has to be the Kneecap shows. I got to headline the official Kneecap aftershows in Glasgow, both of which were sold out. Those were my first shows after a long hiatus for health related problems and they killed. I was so worried I was going to be crap after not done it for months but I just gave it my all I remembered who I was effectively supporting. I also realised that for someone like me a disabled person, to get an opportunity like this as one of the most underrepresented groups in the UK I had to give it everything. 

And then afterwards getting to hang with Kneecap and one of the members from GIllaband and just shoot the shit about films and music was so much fun. They are all the nicest guys and are also super real, they truly care and believe in what they are doing and they deserve heaps of praise. Whats being done to them is ridiculous however I feel wholeheartedly that they are playing it perfectly and will come out the other end even bigger than they were prior.

Anything out there that’s feeding into your songwriting right now? Art, music, annoying wee guys, whatever it may be. 

Back when I started out I had a philosophy of listening to loads of different music for the purpose of influence and while I don’t totally knock that field of thought I haven’t been doing that for a while. 

I think once you get to a certain point creatively it serves to try and not be influenced by outside sources too much, to that end I just consume art mainly for fun and for arts sake rather than approaching it with a “oh what can I take from this.” I want what I do next to be 100% from me and no one else. 

If anything feeds into at the moment I’d say its my own personal drive to top what I have done before and to keep going. I’ve branded myself as this sort of musical vigilante who works within their own code and philosophy  and has this mission to make cool shit but also to inspire the current generation and those who will come after of Neurodivergent people who are often told that their prognosis for doing anything in life is zilch. 

To quote Solid Snake “Life isn’t just about passing on your genes. We can leave behind much more than just DNA. Through speech, music, literature and movies. What we’ve seen, heard, felt: anger, joy, sorrow these are the things I will pass on.”

What’s next for Watters?

I can’t get into specifics right now for a variety of wonderful reasons (I’m not being sarcastic when I say that they are genuinely awesome reasons) but the future has never looked brighter for myself and what I do. Cool guy things are on their way and will be forever.