SILENCE! #179
March 7th, 2016
IT’S A MUST THAT I TAKE THE STREETS BACK SO FAST, EVERYBODY THINKIN’ IT’S NOT GONNA LAST…
Okay big picture people, big picture only. Blue sky thinking, big picture stuff. Blue sky, big picture, out of the box stuff people. Big, blue, out-of-the-box thinking. Big picture, blue sky thinking, right out of the box, take the ball and run with it stuff people. Big runny blue balls, right out of the box. OK people? OK?
<ITEM> It’s the comics podcast that man, feels like a woman! It’s SILENCE! you lucky, lucky pea-pods.
<ITEM> Not just any episode, but one of our fabled Guesticodes featuring none other than Kelly Kanayama aka Maid of Nails. Scholar, Rob Liefeld character, and Frank MIller gang member? Whatever, she’s here and she’s raising the bar. Limboing smoothly under it are old hams Gary Lactus and The Beast Must Die.
<ITEM> Sponsorship as usual, but with some red hot Dundee recommendations! Also The Beast has some life admin to share, and is ready to introduce…the Phantasmacats! Also, Team Poppet and the Final Solution?? Oh and Dicks. Don’t forget the Dicks.
<ITEM> Let’s go go go into The Reviewniverse, and it’s a humdinger. We talk The Discipline, Shade The Changing Man, The Extremist, Grant Morrison, Peter Milligan and bondage, Ted McKeever’s Pencil Head, Cerebus The Aardvark, problematic creators, Jiro Kawata’s Bat-Manga, Black Widow, Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog and a slab more.
<ITEM> Gary has to duck out early so The Beast and Maid of Nails sing it out in style…
GERTCHA!
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You can support us using Patreon if you like.
This edition of SILENCE! is proudly sponsored by the greatest comics shop on the planet, DAVE’S COMICS of Brighton. It’s also sponsored the greatest comics shop on the planet GOSH! Comics of London.
March 7th, 2016 at 11:18 pm
NO!!!!
really!!!you guys had to jump on the equality/lgbt/white knight fucking tumbler/batgirl/marvel girls fuckin naive we’re all equal, bullshit movement on the inter web at the mo…please,not you…ALL INCLUSIVE…fuck you…what did it bring to the episode???…oh…she’s heard of grant morrison…cute…sorry guys thats tokenism,does’t make you cool….and it kills everything the beast ever said in a cynical/ironic to try to sound right on and cool…when are you relaunching with a new number 1/jumping on point…ALL INCLUSIVE MAN…like,hum,man,dude,like, hum,yeah,I know preacher,yeah like,AS A WOMAN,I like saga or whatever,but I know 2000ad…FUCKIN’REALLY mister Lactus and Beast??????
Oh and she jumped on what every other website said was wrong…Milligan…PLEASE…
…INCLUSIVE!!!!!…will be the end of us all.
Fuck you….shit I love your podcast but come on,are you comic vine?
#womensright,#comicsforeveryone,#I’mTRIGGERED.#notmyvampirela,
oh,and make sure you plug your podcast and make us think you know about art history..or whatever..”you don’t know what I went through man’,
#almostnaked,#icansaycumshot,#primalevilmalesexuality,#nakedfleshincomics,#i’mreallyfuckinangry,#ohacreepyman!
…come on…
OH MY GOD!!..Like WOW!!
March 7th, 2016 at 11:30 pm
oh…sorry,,,a degree in comics…i should shut up…
still i don’t think Kelly sue writes for the loaded football crowd…why? you think they feel left out of bitch planet!!!
INCLUUUUUUUUUSIVE!!!!!!
(and no bloke writing about sex or nudity,,,it’s only for hardcore feminist to write about in a
ironic,but not really way)
I’m so angry right now guys….WHAT ABOUT THE GIRLS!!!!
…aren’t they as clever and the guys and see it for what it is…a comic for male teens..
March 8th, 2016 at 12:02 am
hum..I relise now that it was a “guespisode” but why not a fucking intro and interview like any other guest…it was like listening to a pair of teenagers in a Beavis voice…a bit patronising to everyone involved,in my ‘liberal,lefty,arty but stop hamering it for nothing but your self promotion type’,opinion…honestly,get off social media for spell…
March 8th, 2016 at 12:03 am
Not heard this week’s podcast yet ‘cos it’s downloading, but I assume by the above comments that it’s a good ‘un.
March 8th, 2016 at 12:48 am
david…
….
son.
What the fuck is wrong with you.
March 8th, 2016 at 12:50 am
*we get a lady on*
this dude CANNOT handle it, absolutely pathetic.
March 8th, 2016 at 1:05 am
Is this a wind up?
March 8th, 2016 at 1:16 am
David, would you like to come on the podcast sometime soon?
March 8th, 2016 at 1:34 am
Kelly is our friend. Don’t be an asshole.
March 8th, 2016 at 5:22 am
This was great, as always. I’d be up for having Kelly/Maid of Nails on the show as frequently as she’s available to guest host.
March 8th, 2016 at 7:35 am
David, son – you’ve been on our dick but now you’re crying because you found out there’s also a woman on the other side of the Mighty Mindless Member? Come on man, that’s tragic!
It’s also officially the best argument against whatever it is that you thought you were trying to say across those three sputtering, condescending messages.
For real, try reading them over from our perspective, and imagine how you come off to the people you’re shouting at. I’ll let you in on a secret… it isnae good.
I’m proud to be able to say that Mindless Ones has hosted many pieces that have touched on race / gender / sexuality in comics over the years (giving a shit about other people and basically being able to look up from your own warty gitprong every now and then isn’t some new trend that came in the post with last month’s issue of Tumblr Magazine you know) and I’m even prouder to be able to call Kelly my friend.
I don’t want to go too hard on you because I’m honestly a little worried about how worked up this has got you, but you need to apologise then you need to fuck off and think about what you’ve done, maybe talk it out with some close friends or family members, whatever.
For your sake I hope there’s someone there for you to offer you a bit of love and perspective.
Xxx
March 8th, 2016 at 7:46 am
… Is this a joke?
David, if it is a joke it’s a bad one that I’m afraid has failed to come off and has made you look a bit of a fool. It’s difficult to make irony carry across the Internet, and you’re not an expert.
If it’s not a joke, and you really are the kind of bigoted scum that would write those foul words…
Listen now: You are the problem. You have sorely missed the point of this podcast, this website, and of being a human alive on planet earth. You really got all that wrong, all along. You’re a much more stupid and unpleasant person than you think you are. All of your self conceptions are wrong. All your opinions, all of your thoughts about yourself, everything you think you know about the person you are: all wrong.
Go far away, and don’t return until you’re a very different person to the one you are now, and come with a damn good apology.
March 8th, 2016 at 8:59 am
David, you remind me of some friends who’ve gone through tough times. If you’re getting upset over a something like podcast then you’re probably spending too much time in front of the computer at the moment! I’d strongly recommend turning it off for a while, going outside and if possible doing some vigorous exercise which usually helps restore a sense of perspective!
March 8th, 2016 at 9:03 am
If it´s not a joke then we´re definitely witnessing some very strange and harsh mental health. Whatever else it is, though, it´s fucking hateful and I don´t want it round here.
March 8th, 2016 at 9:18 am
I came to look at the comments section before listening to the podcast, as I thought it must have been a great one with all those comments. I was disappointed to discover not only was the podcast probably the same level of entertainment as usual, but some of the comments were filled with the ramblings of a deluded madman.
Seeing Kelly talk at the recent SMASH event, it was clear she knew what she was talking about. I’ve not listened to the episode yet, but heard her on other podcasts I enjoyed. David, you should support a fellow comics fan, rather than publicly ridicule yourself with truly embarrassing comments.
March 8th, 2016 at 9:51 am
David: This is really odd. It’s almost as if you’re incapable of seeing Kelly as a complete human being because she’s a woman. I’m sure there must be a word for that.
March 8th, 2016 at 10:04 am
The implication that Silence! is, I dunno, capitulating to the pressures of those SJW loony leftos because they’re GASP including a woman on their podcast is a weird, insulting one on many levels.
Silence! has always been a viable listen for PC Thugs such as myself, and it’s almost as if you don’t NEED to be one in order to accept that women are people with valid opinions, too. Imagine!
Fucking hell, the internet.
Great episode, though! Particularly enjoyed discussion of The Black Hole shop in Dundee. It’s where I got all my comics as a teen, and I can confirm that most of the stock (even the single issues) occupies the same space on the shelves now as it did in 1997, so I know where to go immediately if I want some Ben Raab Excalibur.
Thank fuck a new comics shop’s opened in Dundee, quite frankly. I appreciate the place the dingy creepholes occupy in the comics retail world (where would my Ghost Rider ‘collection’ be without them?), but as someone with intense social anxiety, they are terrifying to actually use.
March 8th, 2016 at 11:38 am
YOUSE GOIZE :D
Thrills: yeah, Black Hole is good for hard-to-find back issues. Mindless alumnus Botswana Beast even got a free Megazine reprint of Tyranny Rex from the Black Hole guy – evidently he just asked if the shop stocked it and the owner said no, but he had it at home, and then gave it to him.
Plus, I will forever be grateful to that shop for placing DC’s Judge Dredd into my hands. That comic makes no damn sense, but the roster! – Oeming, J. H. Williams, a bunch of dudes who are known for comics that are actually good.
March 8th, 2016 at 1:36 pm
Now I’ve listened to it, yes I liked it, it was good.
Black Hole sounds like my kind of shop! I love those places, if I’m ever Dundee way, I will be sure to visit.
Fucking Hell! Rock Bitch! I saw a gig of theirs in Plymouth about 20 years ago, it was nuts! I can’t remember much, but there was plenty nudity, not a lot of coherent music, and some sort of raffle, and the winner got to go backstage for a ‘reward’. There was quite a memorable moment where (I think) the ‘singer’ was naked and hoisted aloft by her bandmates, then (mockingly?) eaten out by a bandmate/member of the audience. Like I say, I can’t remember much, my student brain was addled with too much White Lightning or whatever other cheap off license filth I’d hammered that evening. No idea about the Pat Mills connection though.
Over on his blog yesterday, Ted McKeever says the following-
“For years, I vehemently avoided getting involved with Twitter. But, after constantly being informed that being on it was a necessity if I was going to continue to exist, and thrive, as a viable creator in the comics industry, I decided to give it a go. Three months later, I exit the vacuous Twitter hole, and I’m done with it.
Now, even though I did meet a few very cool people on there, I found the whole thing to be nothing more than a frustrating time-sucking experience lacking in any kind of substantial purpose, and way too much pointless chatter.
Needless to say, I won’t be on there anymore, as I’ll return to socializing on a more humane level.
What can I say?
I tried it.
It didn’t take.
Guess that means I’m not much of a Twit.”
TBMD’s cats- harbingers of doom.
March 8th, 2016 at 1:54 pm
David, I’ll just quote something I wrote on this site a year ago, where I think I was speaking for everyone who contributes to the site:
“We also don’t like men’s rights’ activists, gamergaters, pick-up artists, neoreactionaries, or any of the other current labels being used by overentitled whingeing white men who can’t cope with the idea that someone, somewhere, who isn’t a cishet white man might be having fun, and who are for the most part either witting or unwitting allies with the fascists.”
Without wanting in any way to sound like I’m dismissing the contributions of my fellow Mindless Ones, who I think are possibly the single most interesting group of cultural commentators on the net, the fact is that Kelly is *more* qualified to talk about this stuff than any of us, judging purely on credentials. She’s also an intelligent, thoughtful critic.
Yet despite this, “david” here assumes she must be being included purely because of politicalcorrectnessgawnmad.
He *doesn’t* question the fact that every regular contributor to this site is a cis white man in his thirties. That’s just normal, apparently.
I’m afraid, “david”, that we’re trying to make this site *more* inclusive, not less, as we try to get more regular content up here. You will be seeing and hearing more contributions from people who don’t share the same genitalia or skin tone as you. (As for the LGBT thing — I can think off the top of my head of at least two or three people who have been on Silence! before who are L, G, B, or T. Your ears have already been polluted by the queers, and you didn’t even know it!)
I don’t know Kelly nearly as well as some of the other Mindless do, but she said one thing at Thought Bubble last year that stuck with me — that the reason the Mindless Ones are OK is that even though we’re a bunch of white men, we’re aware that white men are the worst people. People like you, “david”, are why we know that. I am ashamed to share a skin tone, a gender, a sexual orientation, a language, and a species with you.
March 8th, 2016 at 3:07 pm
Dear Mr Lactus and Die, this is the first time I’ve listened to the podcast for a while, which has been incredibly remiss of me and will be rectified in the future. Can I say that I thought Kelly/Maid of Nails was an excellent addition, and I would welcome her return. I honestly can’t understand Dave’s post whatsoever, and genuinely hope it was an attempt at humour that got out of control.
Very much agree with the Beast regarding Dave Sim. Cereus really starts going off the rails around the issue 200 mark, but previous to that his female characters were amongst the best written in comics at that time. If nothing else I think Cereus is a lesson in the adverse effects of working in the comics industry on a creator’s mental health, and specifically don’t try to write, draw and self publish 300 issues of a comic predominantly by yourself.
Johnny Alpha has flirted with the opposite sex, mainly in the Strontium Bitch storyline with Durham Red (from the early prog 500′s, iirc). However, that story does showcase an in-canon threesome between Johnny, Durham and Ronald Reagan, so I think you’re pretty spot on in your reading of Johnny and Wulf’s relationship. Hopefully this link to some lovely Ezqeurra art will work: https://twitter.com/Carey_Art/status/695294442648035329 For all it’s played as a joke, note how Johnny doesn’t give a damn about Ronny joining them.
Once again, many thanks to the three of you for a great podcast.
March 8th, 2016 at 3:52 pm
This was really enjoyable. Especially enjoyed the Milligan and Cerebus chat. If ‘Maid of Nails’ has set the standard for guests I’m really looking forward to the next person who natters with the Silence crew.
March 8th, 2016 at 5:07 pm
Maid of Nails, the Black Hole guy seems a decent chap, it’s true! He has certainly become less surly than he was when I was 11 and he took a snooty tone with me looking at Death’s Head comics.
Milligan chat was good stuff. Not read any of his stuff since Hellblazer, which I enjoyed a lot but yeah, the ‘Kathy in Hell’ stuff was pretty horrible. I think when he’s ‘on’ Milligan’s great at writing about sexuality, and Shade, The Extremist and Enigma are definite favourites.
I’m about to reread his X-Men comics. I’m hoping they’re secret gems that warrant re-evaluation. I mainly remember their mediocre Larocca art, the fantastic portrayal of Gambit as an idiot slave to his own libido, and some vague class-based commentary that may not have happened.
Beast: I thoroughly enjoyed your mimicry of Milligan and Mills. You should put on a super-niche impressions show at the Edinburgh fringe. Throw a Moore and Gaiman into the mix. You could be the new Phil Cool!
March 8th, 2016 at 5:29 pm
Carey: oh my God
March 8th, 2016 at 5:31 pm
I never knew how much my life needed Strontium Dog until now
March 8th, 2016 at 5:58 pm
Episode features some chat about Cerebus and a guy called David appears to spout bizarre misogynist ramblings. How’s that fer yer synchronicities?
“I don’t know Kelly nearly as well as some of the other Mindless do, but she said one thing at Thought Bubble last year that stuck with me — that the reason the Mindless Ones are OK is that even though we’re a bunch of white men, we’re aware that white men are the worst people. ”
If there was a Mindless Ones deluxe hardcover you’d have to have that quote on the cover. (With a foreword by Neil Gaiman of course)
March 8th, 2016 at 11:48 pm
I wasn’t expecting to see this sort of thing on a Mindless Ones comments thread… And on International Women’s Day. If there’s an upside it’s that the reactions to Dave’s comments confirm that the Mindless are my kind of people, even if they are, as Andrew Hickey puts it, the “worst people.” Hope to hear more from Kelly Maid of Nails!
March 9th, 2016 at 10:14 am
I must admit to not putting 2000AD through the critical filter when it comes to issues of race or gender. As much as I loved them growing up, it’s hard not to see the monocultural and stereotypical depictions of other continents as anachronistic at best and racist at worst. In the comic’s defence – as much as these things can be defended – it always worked with a very broad brush, and it came out of time when that sort of thing would have been both acceptable and expected. That doesn’t make it okay, but it does make it understandable.
The thing that shouldn’t be lost, though, is how 2000AD would have been an introduction to issues of race, prejudice and power for many kids living in the UK. Its punk outlook was implicitly and explicitly critical of entrenched power structures, and it walked a fine line between enjoying its genre excesses and critiquing them. I’d want to argue that my feelings about the Other were to some degree shaped by Pat Mills’ and Kevin O’Neill’s work on Nemesis, and that Dredd would have impacted my thoughts about authority and how it’s exercised. Halo Jones was probably the first story that got me thinking about consumerism and its relationship to identity.
At heart, 2000AD was always a comic about worlds which had gone badly wrong – with the physical environment, but perhaps more crucially with culture. That’s an amazing thing to be putting into the hands of children every week.
March 10th, 2016 at 12:37 am
Fun to have Dave Sim show up in the comments section for a bit of banter. Luckily the vast majority of the Dear Listener-tariat (at least as represented in these comments) are the kind of thoughtful, receptive, kind people who can get really caught up in Reviewniverse canon.
Anyhow, really happy to hear the Maid of Nails rip on The Discipline. I read the first half of it, skimmed the rest, and as I tossed it in the recycling bin hoped one of the Silence! crew would pick it up. Along with all of the anti-eros and weird sexual violence, from a pure craft perspective the pacing was just bananas. If someone involved in the production admitted that they left out every other page of the script just to see what would happen, I’d believe it.
March 10th, 2016 at 11:04 am
Really enjoyed that episode and Silence!’s gradual morphing from a comics podcast towards a more feline centric one.
Interesting to hear a review of those Cerebus floppies. Church and State and Jaka’s story are some of the best comics ever and the talent and ambition is mindblowing. Sim’s story is heartbreaking. It’s easy to make cheap shots about Sim being a mysogynist but I think working single mindedly and mostly in isolation on something for over twenty years would send anyone a bit loopy. I wonder if the need to retain some perspective is part of the reason David Lapham has his wife edit his bleak and long running Stray Bullets title?
There’s a great article about Sim’s more recent stuff here
https://suggestedformaturereaders.wordpress.com/2015/11/30/dave-sim-thought-aloud-to-himself/
Kelly was great company. Apparently Dicks is so called, because the creators wanted fans to say ‘I love Dicks!’, but I disagree about the irrevererant portrayal of North Koreans in the Strontium Dog story. That was great! Judge Dredd is one extended (and often extremely dark) satire of the US and Strontium Dog has often done the same for British politicians so I don’t understand why North Korean politicians shouldn’t be fair game too?
March 11th, 2016 at 7:53 am
Count me as someone pleased with Nails turning up.
One question, doing a comics Phd at the University of Dundee (Home of DC Thompson IIRC), is that actually Bash Street School?
In my non-existent Silence Fanfic the Galacticats are drawn by Kirby, the Phantasmacats Ditko.
March 11th, 2016 at 9:17 am
I think that’s about accurate. Wogan certainly has a very Ditko-sequel quality