Diane… #10: Twin Peaks Episode 8 – May the Giant be with You
July 26th, 2016
Welcome to Diane… number 9.
Rosie, Mark and Adam’s spirits are revived by the eighth episode and Season 2 opener of David Lynch and Mark Frost’s Twin Peaks, May the Giant Be With You.
Greater powers step closer: Donna feels the heat, Leland feels the holy beat and Major & Bobby Briggs share a vision. Ronette stumbles from her dreams with devils on her heels. It’s a hell of an episode ladies and germs, but there’s a little slice of heaven in there too.
Expect: spiritual beauty, frustrating customer service, and the death of Laura Palmer.
*
Look up here, I’m in heaven
I’ve got scars that can’t be seen
I’ve got drama, can’t be stolen
Everybody knows me now
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Next episode: Things go into outer space, man.
29 Responses to “Diane… #10: Twin Peaks Episode 8 – May the Giant be with You”
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July 28th, 2016 at 1:05 pm
The primal image of human sacrifice, with the officiator raising a dagger high, may come from artistic representations of the binding of Isaac:
http://www.artsunlight.com/artist-NL/N-L0015-Anton-Losenko/N-L0015-0013-abraham-sacrifice-his-son-isaac.html
Love the podcast.
I’ve been meaning to say since you mentioned the film noir Laura, though that movie has an urban setting and feels quite unlike Twin Peaks, there are evocative not-quite-similarities. At the start of the film, Laura is dead. The detective investigating the case hears about her via flashbacks and sees her portrait and starts to fall in love with the dead girl. (James Ellroy claims Laura is the favourite film of all homicide detectives because they all do this). Then — massive spoiler alert — Laura turns up alive, and the detective has to deal with a flesh-and-blood woman who may be a suspect (somebody WAS killed) or may still be in danger from the true killer.
July 28th, 2016 at 4:10 pm
So pleased you’re enjoying D, thank you for letting us know! Kathryn on Twitter mentioned that Abraham/Isaac reference but I hadn’t seen an actual picture, that’s a really good one, I like the hand on Abe’s arm there. The thing I was thinking about that pose that I don’t think I properly expressed was that it implies an exterior agency, working through the body, that is literally located above the body. This again points to a complicated problem of agency in Laura’s murder.
Following all the recommendations for Laura (1944) yours was the final shove I needed and I’ve just spent my afternoon off watching! Very good indeed and wow the Twin Peaks resonances come thick and fast.
[SPOILERS]
That bit when the detective wakes to find her there and he looks at her like he’s dreaming and says “You are Laura Hunt, aren’t you?” Very lovely. The sense of beauty as a treacherous value is very elegantly expressed throughout; the overwrought obsession that the film and everyone in it has with Laura is effective and uncomfortable. Is she in a better situation at the end than she was before the story began?
Really enjoyed watching this anyway, a huge thanks to you D and everyone else who’s been recommending it!
July 28th, 2016 at 5:01 pm
Hi Diane squad,
Rosie, glad you liked Laura and that it resonated in all the right ways.
Here’s some thoughts from me on your Episode 10 (The Man Behind the Glass):
Is this the only episode that involves Ronnette Pulaski that isn’t directed by Lynch? I’m at least 90% sure of this…I would completely understand why the other directors don’t remember to use her much if this is the case, because no one ever used her in the first place to remember her by, except for Glatter, who has more particularly tricky concerns to traverse when directing her remaining episodes.
Albert’s speeches are usually written by Harley Peyton. This one, culminating with “I love you, Harry Truman”, is by Robert Engels. That’s why it sounds like it’s from out of nowhere. It’s neat, but still hard for me to accept such a quick change just so narratively the two characters can stay in a room together in future episodes without someone needing a trip to the hospital. I find your take on this much more interesting (and accepting) and it prompts me to feel better about the narrative choice.
I’ve been wondering where you would fall on the Dick Tremayne love/hate scale. SO glad you love him…I think he’s my favorite part of the coffee-and-donuts side of Twin Peaks. Nice touch of “exquisiteness” with the classical music underscoring your conversation, by the way. Set the mood perfectly.
Nadine’s super strength is actually present before her suicide attempt, but they don’t make a huge deal out of it when they show it in season one: you can see her bend her exercise equipment in season one when she gets mad at Ed while working out.
This episode makes me love Donna’s character too. The scene at the gravesite is fantastic, and the stuff with Harold is blatantly dealing with the stuff under the surface of a person. When I was 12 in particular, this was some really good stuff I totally latched onto.
Thanks for the shout-out, and take care.
July 28th, 2016 at 5:33 pm
The super strength is there before this episode, yeah, but it doesn’t become a plot feature until this point, which is why I think Mark’s take still stands.
July 28th, 2016 at 5:47 pm
Adam, I like Mark’s take quite a bit myself…I wish I could go with it a little more but both with the gym equipment and anything that follows, I don’t think Nadine realizes she has the EXTREME strength.
Though since she’s much better at utilizing it now and she does realize that she’s at least regular strong, I overall agree with the heart of Mark’s thoughts on this.
I love your podcast’s general focus on Nadine. Most other shows tend to throw her out with the bathwater and you really treat her with dignity (as only Frost and Lynch ever tend to be consistent with).
July 29th, 2016 at 10:22 am
I´d just like to add that I – and I suspect most of the Diane crew – hold these kinds of theories very lightly. It´s more about unlocking how and why something makes you feel the way it does, and/or just playing with a text that asks you to play with it, than literal truth.
July 29th, 2016 at 11:32 am
Not me I believe everything!
Absolutely agree that Nadine doesn’t realise her strength, in a literal sense. Remember that bit when she goes in to hug Ed after the silent drape breakthrough and winds him. Poor Ed.
Really love Nadine and probably identify with her more than a lot of characters. Very excited for the part of her story coming up!
July 29th, 2016 at 12:50 pm
Don’t worry, Mark, it’s clear to us listeners the theories are much more playful than overly concrete. I think how you just described it (“It´s more about unlocking how and why something makes you feel the way it does, and/or just playing with a text that asks you to play with it, than literal truth.”) is a very Lynchean way to interpret things, and summarized quite well.
And anyway, the only truly wrong way to interpret Twin Peaks is by saying “I know THIS is the only single true answer.”
To be perfectly honest, Nadine isn’t in my top tier of favorite characters, but I’ve always thought she deserved more warmth and decency from the fan base and your show gives her that. And I’m going to enjoy how you discuss her part of the story, I just know it. For one, I LOVE that scene at the Great Northern.
July 29th, 2016 at 1:35 pm
It’s funny, isn’t it, which characters resonate with people. Nadine was such a strong presence for me the first time through, despite having only tenuous links to the A plot. I guess she feels very lynchian, all hidden fire.
Do you know, I can’t even remember the scene you’re talking about? I’m sure it’s great though! Doing the podcast without having rewatched the entire series recently has its pitfalls.
Think Mark’s cheated and binged the whole thing.
July 29th, 2016 at 1:36 pm
Who do you like in particular, John? Excluding the obvious ones…
July 29th, 2016 at 3:22 pm
I’d like to align myself first as a Cooper guy over a Laura guy.
You know I love Pete, Big Ed, the police force, and the FBI crew.
I always loved that fish out of water, Maddie Ferguson, and Donna too.
Jean Renault was entertaining, and I’m a big Windom Earle guy.
And I think Harry gets a bad rap too. He’s a good dude.
As Twin Peaks is my Star Trek, this is a really difficult question not to give every character a pro/con list.
I think it’s good that at least one of you’d binged recently (however uncouth) because it’s always good to have a fresh map of the territory. Me, I haven’t watched since 2010 (except for Episode 29 last year). All you podcasters are keeping me fresh.
July 29th, 2016 at 3:34 pm
Lots of people seem to think Windom Earle is weaksauce. These people are wrong!
July 29th, 2016 at 3:36 pm
Oh, and my wife and I watched episodes 28 and 29 on June 10th to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the original airing of the finale (which we both watched back then in our earlier lives).
Short term memory, where are you?
July 29th, 2016 at 3:38 pm
By the way, John, what about that book trailer, eh? Much squeeing from me.
July 29th, 2016 at 3:53 pm
I’ve got thoughts on where Windom Earle went wrong, that stem mostly from my missing his actual introduction the first time through (I missed the eight episodes before the finale) and first being introduced to him in that series finale where he’s genuinely frightening, but I’ll sit on that a bit. Suffice to say I know he’s not weaksauce.
July 29th, 2016 at 3:59 pm
The fact that Douggie Milford is mentioned in Frost’s book trailer encourages me to think that season two isn’t going to be pushed too far out of the scene, and that all Twin Peaks will be included as opposed to retconned.
Besides that, I am trying my best to not connect the dots too far. Either way, what is this, sign number 27 that we are actually getting new Twin Peaks episodes in our future? Still feels surreal.
July 29th, 2016 at 5:53 pm
Well it´s been a surreal year.
John, I was saying to Rosie that I´m often a bit loathe to comment because I want it *all* to be in the show, so I´m pleased that you clocked our attitude to this kind of theorising even before I set about explaining it! That´s great.
I also wanted to say that I´m very persuaded by your Donna should have been the focus of the supernatural elements thing. One argument from the other side, though, which now occurs to me: even though it probably hurt the show, perhaps a breather was necessary if only to re-energise all that stuff. It might have resonated a bit more because there was a bit of a break. I´m sure you´ve thought about this much longer and harder than me, however, and I´d like to see the case unpacked a bit.
July 29th, 2016 at 7:20 pm
Hi Mark, I get your instinct to leave it all for the podcast. What I’d like to know is, do you want me to post my actual Donna/supernatural theories right here or since they’re spoilery-by-necessity would you rather see it emailed to, say, the mindlessones hotmail address?
July 29th, 2016 at 9:49 pm
Do you mean they´re potentially spoilery for season 3? Either way a spoiler warning should be fine.
July 29th, 2016 at 11:32 pm
Okay then. It’s spoilery for how season 2 shakes out is all.
So, consider this SPOILERS AHEAD
I used to subscribe to the idea that putting the supernatural away for a while kept it special and recharged.
But (when I realized that the Two Brothers episode really did go ALL sitcom) I realized the show needed to maintain a balance and a gravity again, and that’s when I realized the Tremonds and Mike dissappeared from the whole show, not just the retreating Bob.
Since Donna’d actually met the Tremonds, and she reacts in the Roadhouse after the giant appears there, she could easily see the Tremonds around town. They don’t have to say anything to her, they don’t have to be in more than a minute per episode (Bob was used sparingly at the beginning, use that template for their scheduling) but they seem to serve the role of messenger so if they were cryptic and it was up to Donna to decode them, that could be ten minutes of scenes spread over four or so episodes, and the plot wouldn’t need to cross paths with Cooper or even Earle. Donna could’ve talked to Sarah Palmer about her puzzle, or even followed the Log Lady out of the diner for help or to deliver a message.
This could’ve easily become an A-plot or B-plot after the planned Cooper\Audrey thing got shot down. And the Nadine and Little Nicky stories could be smaller (and therefore more palatable) and it would’ve kept James in city limits for his final story, which
And even with all these changes Nadine would still get to clobber the snot out of Hank :)
July 29th, 2016 at 11:58 pm
My last message had a comment about James that should’ve finished like this: which wouldn’t fix him as a character but at least it’d keep him and the town in more relevance.
August 6th, 2016 at 1:00 pm
In your new show covering Episode 11 (Laura’s Secret Diary), You talk of far flung friends and you go immediately to “Andy sends the troops flying.” Made me laugh (as did your later talk of the “Hooper” bromance). Excellent intro per usual, their wordplay always dazzles.
(And Rosie, I was young enough the first time I saw this episode I somehow missed what Andy was doing too.)
This was the first episode that proved the depth of Ray Wise’s acting chops…fan for life of that lovable, intimidating guy.
I forget where I heard this (might’ve even been your show now that I think about it) but Leslie Linka Glatter started the conventions that are seen in the Great Northern lobby every episode, and every director after her got to come up with something of their own to have in the background…I suspect there was a fun competition between the directors about this.
I love cream cheese, I like hot dogs….Together? Might not like it but I would try it. But this is from the guy who tried a deep-fried oreo (not nearly as good as it sounds like it should be).
A better use of cream cheese? Spread it on a slice of bread, then spread grape jam on another slice of bread, put them together like a sandwich, and put it in a toaster oven for a bit. Your taste buds have this conundrum: is it a sandwich or is it a donut? Who cares, it’s a great snack.
For me, the scene with Hank’s crappy roundhouse kick is where he loses all his menace, a huge downgrade for a character who just lost a TON of potential.
Not bringing Sid up by name…for shame. She’s everything Lana Budding Milford should’ve been.
The storm being cognitive dissonance to what is being said (the menace brought into Judge Sternwood’s scenes for one) was unintended by the script…Todd Holland wanted to bring in rain to the show because in reality it’s always raining in the Pacific Northwest. I think he ended up using it like Lynch would use music (that moody looming music behind Donna and Harriet’s happy sisterly conversation in the pilot for example), because he’s good at using Lynch style in an effective way.
Your talk about Josie and Hong Kong was fascinating. The only thing I ever hear about is the racism afoot…never anything about the actual background climate of the time. Might make me like her a little more if you keep this up.
Valhalla!
August 7th, 2016 at 2:44 pm
Hey John! Thank you so much for the compliment about the intros I spend far too long on them every week. My lovely co-hosts didn’t react to my “troops” reference so I thought I might have pitched a bit low :)
Right, I am going to try the grape and cream cheese thing that sounds really nice. I would definitely eat a deep fried oreo I’m very brave when it comes to things being deep fried.
So disappointed with Hank, especially this time through when we’re going into more detail, he definitely could have been a very cool presence in the show and he just kind of fizzles into nothingness. Not mentioning Sid is also a huge oversight she is extremely cool and beautiful and just has a very nice air of gravitas about her.
Glad you enjoyed the Josie talk. It was illuminating to find out a bit more about some of the cultural currents flowing around that character. The essay by Dr. Greta Ai-yu Niu (whose name I completely mispronounced) is really really wonderful, and can be found here for anyone interested! Should note again for new viewers that it does contain SPOILERS for the whole show.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gmxvwib180gC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false
August 7th, 2016 at 9:45 pm
Rosie, thanks for sharing that link…fairly enlightening though I still expect much of Josie’s portrayal after her initial character creation comes from ignorance at the hands of the writers etc. My big clue? One newspaper headline: Asian man killed.
But how she was designed after casting etc I fully believe was grown from the climate in that article.
My favorite intro of yours so far ends with “didn’t bury her deep enough”.I’ll make sure to bring up my reaction to these more often because the sum of the parts always hits me like a good poem ought to.wish I’d written them.
Only necessary deep-fried item is a Twinkie. Everything else tastes just like it.
Amen on Hank’s fizzle.
August 8th, 2016 at 8:51 am
Deep fried twinkie!!! I would try that (and then die)
August 8th, 2016 at 9:25 am
Really appreciate the appreciation John writing is my favourite. Very lucky that the show throws up so much wonderful material to work with.
Oh god Asian Man Killed I’d forgotten about that. Oh dear.
August 8th, 2016 at 7:24 pm
Don’t worry, Adam, you won’t die from a deep fried twinkie unless your kids don’t finish theirs and you try to polish those off too (and I suspect a child’s stomach being fillable is an impossible situation so there’s nothing to worry about anyway). Otherwise, you just need to take a five hour walk afterwards and you’ll be good as new.
August 9th, 2016 at 7:08 am
Twinkies are like gold dust over here. Really cheap and kinda nasty but awesome gold dust.
Remember the old comics ads (and for hostess cupcakes)? A big part of the appeal.
August 9th, 2016 at 11:48 am
Hell yes, Adam. Unlike Nintendo, Twinkies seem to have the same situation in your country as mine. (Hostess comics ads are such good nostalgia). I wonder how they pulled that off. Other than they’re just that addictively good.